Skeptic to Believer- The Ross Shafer story

Oct 20, 2022

28 min read

Updated: Sep 19

Like many of us, as a believer, Ross Shafer was a late bloomer. Like many of us, he forged his way through most of his life thinking he was in complete control. It was only later he realized that he was not really in control at all.

In this episode you'll hear the amazing cinderella story of a guy who started with a stereo/pet shop business out of college and in just a few short years ended up as the host to millions on a network late night talk show. Much of his success he'd chalked up to "luck" and his hard work. You'll hear how in retrospect there were "God moments" along the way that were clearly gifts.

It was author Lee Strobel and pastor Rick Warren who had an impact on Ross's conversion and he'll share how each played an important role.

Ross is a stand up comic, a talk show host, game show host, speaker, and author of 11 books. He's interview the who's who of Hollywood, won Emmy awards and almost successfully changed the Washington State song to Louie, Louie! He shares his career story and his personal connection with Jesus and some of the miracles and challenges along the way. That's what makes this episode such a powerful testimony.

His latest book is called "Rattled" and is co authored with his fiancé Allison Dalvit. Each of them share their short life stories of resilience. Moments when they've gone from shook to solid. A helpful guide for bouncing back.

"Amazing Greats" is a library of interviews with highly successful people who have amazing career and life stories and who share how God has impacted their journey. Hosted by broadcaster Ric Hansen & produced by Klem Daniels. Available on Apple, Spotify, iHeart, Google and our YouTube Channel.

ROSS SCHAFER AT A GLANCE

Emmy Award-Winning TV Host • Comedian • Author • Speaker

Topics

Comedy • Almost Live! • Television • Stand-Up • Seattle • Preparation • Resilience • Faith • Prayer • Lee Strobel • Rattled

His Faith Journey

Agnostic skepticism → Meeting Christian friends → Hearing Rick Warren and Lee Strobel → Reading The Case for Christ → Friendship with Lee Strobel and Squire Rushnell → Learning personal prayer → Growing faith and trust in God

This Episode Explores

Ross Schafer's early life and football career
Finding comedy and winning the 1983 Seattle competition
The importance of preparation
The "So What?" philosophy
The rise of Almost Live!
His transition to national television
Losing his Fox talk show and handling rejection
Meeting Lee Strobel and exploring Christianity
Moving from "luck" toward seeing God's providence
Learning to pray and wait on God
Dealing with unanswered prayer
Rattled and stories of resilience

Questions Answered

Who is Ross Schafer?
How did Ross Schafer get started in comedy?
How did he win the Seattle comedy competition?
What was Almost Live!?
What was the "So What?" philosophy?
How did Ross Schafer find his passion?
How did he get his national television opportunity?
Who did Ross Schafer interview?
How did Ross Schafer become a Christian?
How did Lee Strobel influence his faith?
What does Ross Schafer believe about luck and God's providence?
How did he learn to pray?
What is Rattled about?

Core Story

Ross Schafer's journey from comedy and television success to Christian faith is a story of preparation, resilience, rejection, prayer and learning to trust God's timing.

Podcast Transcript: Ross Schafer on Comedy, Television, Faith, Resilience & Rattled

Amazing Greats with Ric Hansen

From Federal Way to Stand-Up Comedy

Ric Hansen: Hello and welcome to Amazing Greats, the podcast. I'm Ric Hansen, your host, and today we have a lively conversation with a stand-up comic, a television show host, an author, a speaker, and an amazing guy. His name is Ross Schafer. If you're from Seattle, you know him. If not, you're going to get to know him. Great guy, great story. Let's go. It's Amazing Greats with Ross Schafer.

This is such a pleasure to have you here with us, Ross Schafer. I did some real digging. Of course, I knew who Ross Schafer was because you're kind of a Seattle icon, a Seattle legend, if you will, and that's where my background is as well. But then I found out all kinds of other stuff.

You're a headline comedian, Emmy Award-winning TV host. You hosted five network TV shows. You did stand-up comedy all across America. After winning the Seattle International Stand-Up Competition in 1983, you went on to headline all kinds of major comedy clubs and became a casino favorite at Harrah's, Caesars Palace, the Riviera and Resorts International.

You've written and produced human-resource videos and 11 books. You're the father of three children, you have four grandchildren, and we're going to dig into all of that, plus your faith background, right here on Amazing Greats. So welcome, Ross Schafer.

Ross Schafer: Thank you, Rick. Thank you. I am glad to be face to face with you.

Ric Hansen: Well, let's kick off with you as the young Ross Schafer. You went to Federal Way High School, played football, went to the University of Puget Sound and played football. At one point along the way, you said you were not sure what you were going to be or what you were passionate about or happy doing.

That was a struggle that you had in the early days: "What am I supposed to do?" Walk us through that a little bit.

Ross Schafer: I graduated with a marketing degree from UPS in Tacoma. It was marketing and management as a minor. So the natural thing seemed to be to try to get a job in advertising. And I couldn't get a job in advertising, so I went to work for Yard Birds.

I don't know if anybody will—well, I guess in Washington State they'd remember Yard Birds. It was this retail store with an actual giant black yard bird out in the parking lot. My dad knew the owner, and he said, "Well, go down there." So I went down and applied for a job, and I got a job in their marketing department, their little advertising department.

But it was old school, and nobody liked this young guy coming in and trying to come up with ideas. They wanted to do things the old way.

So I took advice from the owner of Yard Birds and said, "Why don't you go out and get your own business?" I said, "Well, how am I going to do that?" He said, "Go to the bankruptcy court. You can buy it for nothing down."

And so I did. I went to the bankruptcy court and I started with a little stereo store, and I turned it into a stereo and pet shop. It was America's only stereo and pet shop, by the way.

Ric Hansen: That was your first comedic adventure, right?

Ross Schafer: Yeah, it was my first shop, and the stereo-pet-shop idea and the publicity around it gave me a lot of momentum to get advertising work.

So I went to work for Squire Shops, which was a 28-store chain in the Pacific Northwest, as their marketing director. And my best friend there was Chip Hanauer, the hydroplane driver. So I managed the hydroplane team's publicity and did all that.

Well, I still wasn't fulfilled, and I started hanging out at comedy clubs. It was just something I did because it was close to work downtown Seattle. I watched these comedians and I thought, "Oh my God, look what they're doing to the audience. Everybody's laughing."

And because I was a fairly insecure young guy, because my father had moved us six or seven times throughout grade school and junior high school, I thought, "If I could do something like this, maybe I'd get that Jones fixed," you know, that I would get this acceptance if I was any good.

So I started hanging out, and then I went to open-mic nights, and I found out about the comedy competition. One thing led to another.

I approached comedy like a business, and I wanted to see what the mechanics were. What is the science of making people laugh?

I would record comedians that came on The Tonight Show with my stopwatch, and I realized, "Oh, they're getting six laughs a minute, and each laugh seems to be three seconds."

So I said, "The material I've got just goes on forever." I went to a coach, and the coach said, "Cut it all out. How much do you have left over from your 20 minutes?"

And I had like four or five minutes that were any good. So that became my new model.

I entered the competition the first year and didn't do very well. But by '83, I'd won it, and I was using that formula that I came up with and that Jim Richardson, this coach, had come up with.

Once I won that, you not only get prize money, but now you get some respect, and I was getting more work. That really launched me into this sideline business where I was still working at Squire Shops, but I could go out at night and be a comedian.

Ric Hansen: Wow. That's a story I've never heard before. And I've dug a lot and found out a lot of stories about you, but that's something I didn't know.

Ross Schafer: Well, I know it kind of takes the magic trick out of the magic in a way.

Ric Hansen: No, but it's great because it shows how one of the things that was consistent throughout your career, as I could see, is the importance of preparation. So this was the start of all of that. The prep to know what you needed to do and prepare for what you needed to do—that was the magic. A lot of guys don't do that.

Ross Schafer: I think you're right. Also, I came to comedy late. There were a lot of comedians I've known over the years who started at 17, 18, 19 years old. I didn't until 28.

So I was kind of the old guy in the comedy club as far as the young up-and-coming people. I didn't have much time. I wanted to shortcut this if I could.

The Influence of His Parents

Ric Hansen: So before we get jumping into more of that Cinderella story that we're going to talk about here, I wanted to ask you about your parents. They were a significant influence on you from the very beginning. What was the best advice or gift that they gave you in terms of advice along the way?

Ross Schafer: A sense of humor was really important in our family. Both my mother and my father were funny people. They were giving. They always had lots of people over for parties.

My dad was kind of a madman sort of guy. He had a cocktail every night, wore a suit. He was a car salesman who turned out to work for ARCO, the company that started out as Richfield Oil and then became ARCO. He was a tires-and-battery salesman for gas stations, but he was very entertaining and he just loved to have parties.

Then he would entertain sometimes. He had dentures, so at parties he would take his teeth out, put on a floppy hat and pantomime the words to "Mule Train" or songs that he could do. I think he saw Jerry Lewis do that and thought, "Oh, he could do that too."

So it was fun, and we were free to do that.

He didn't think comedy was something that you could make a living at, especially with a college degree. "What's wrong with you? Why are you not just going to work and doing that? You maybe can do that on the weekends or something." He didn't understand that it was a passion.

The "So What?" Philosophy

Ric Hansen: We're talking with Ross Schafer, comedian, show host and author on Amazing Greats. There was the coach along the way who had a philosophy called "So What?"

Ross Schafer: Oh man, you really have dug in.

Ric Hansen: Yeah. And so that was an important part of, especially later on in your career, when there were some challenges. Absolutely. So what philosophy came into play?

Ross Schafer: That was Coach Wally Walroff, and he was at the University of Puget Sound, our head coach. He was this big, loud guy that, if we made a mistake on the field—if I was a linebacker and didn't get a tackle or didn't intercept an obvious pass—I'd be dejected.

And I would come back and he'd look me in the face or he'd grab me by my helmet and go, "So what? Get back out there."

And he did that with everybody.

So "So what?" became this mantra that I thought, "Wow, okay, maybe it's okay to get past the mistake and move forward."

And for a business like ours, where rejection happens a lot, and when the rejection is about you and your personality or your performance, it's even worse. So that "So what?" attitude really became motivational for me.

Finding Your Passion

Ric Hansen: Would you have any suggestions for young people who might be catching this show about finding that passion? I know you were very strategic about it. Is there a way that you think a young person could go about finding that passion?

Ross Schafer: Yeah, I kind of do.

Whatever happened in your youth, you didn't get paid for anything, but you liked hobbies or some sports more than you liked doing other things. And I think that's a window. I think that's kind of a clue as to what it is that makes you excited.

You did it for no money. You did it because you'd lose yourself, you'd lose time. You might be up all night.

Maybe it's for young people who like to edit, or they like to play music, or they love pets. I think that's part of the window to look through.

We're kind of trapped in thinking, "But I've got to make a lot of money. I've got to be able to support a family." We all know that that's true, but in every one of those categories, the people who are the happiest are the ones who found a way to monetize their hobbies.

It works all the time. I've seen it.

I'll give you one very short story. There was a woman that I met. I met her husband first, and then he said, "I've got to tell you about my wife."

She was a software engineer and was making $250,000 a year, and she got laid off and didn't know what to do.

He said, "Well, you always liked animals. Why don't you do dog sitting or cat sitting?"

And she goes, "You can't make any money doing that."

Maybe not that way, but how would you twist that? How could you find a way that would be different that people would pay for?

Long story short, she decided that in that business, who is the real customer? Well, the real customer is the animal.

So she would come to your house and be so excited about your dog. She would follow your dog. Where does your dog like to play? What are the toys they like to play with?

And the owners are trying to think about hiring her. They say, "Boy, she is really interested in our animal."

So they try her out for a weekend. And while this family is on vacation, this woman is sending photographs of their dog having fun.

Oh man, that's it.

And it was so sticky that business flooded her. Well, she eclipsed her $250,000 salary pretty early because she was just so different. She's into large animals, small animals, farm animals, with the same approach.

Ric Hansen: Wow, that is a great story.

Ross Schafer: Yeah. I think there's—look to see what it was that made you happy and where the joy came from as a kid, and see if there isn't a way.

And it's easy to see too, because whatever the subject, whatever the hobby is, go online now and see who's succeeding at that.

The Rise of Almost Live!

Ric Hansen: So let's launch the Ross Schafer Cinderella story from stand-up comedy—without the slippers.

From stand-up comedy, where you were successful, you were able to manage kind of an interesting idea in Seattle, which really hadn't been done before: a talk show slash comedy, late night, early evening sometimes, show called Almost Live!.

Almost Live! was a big hit in Seattle. When I was on the radio at KPLZ in the late '80s, you were the citywide celebrity. Everybody knew who Ross Schafer was, and that show was fantastic.

Ric Hansen: Tell me how that all came about, because that was very unique.

Ross Schafer: Pat Cashman, who you know and who was on the radio and was Almost Live! all the time, was also an advisor to the program director at KING-TV.

They'd been thinking they had to do something because this guy named Al Wallace, who had a TV show called How Come?, died. And they had a slot to fill and didn't know what to do with it. It was at 6 p.m. on Sunday nights.

So they thought, "Well, maybe we could put in some kind of homegrown show there." They had other homegrown shows, Ed Hume's gardening show, and there was a religious program.

Pat went to the program director at the station and said, "There's this guy who won a comedy competition, and here's a videotape from him on the Alan Thicke show in Canada."

I was out trying to get on TV. Alan Thicke had a talk show kind of like Johnny Carson, but it was in Canada.

Pat said, "Watch this guy. He bombs sometimes, but he doesn't get shaken."

Ric Hansen: There's the "So what?" attitude right there.

Ross Schafer: It is the "So what?" attitude.

Yeah, I bombed a few times on TV, but I was still calm and I knew the jokes were coming, and so I was patient.

I got a meeting with them and came to Seattle and talked about it. I was doing pretty well on stand-up at that time, and I had a manager.

The manager said, "What's the budget for something like this?" And they told him. He said, "Well, Ross would have to take an enormous cut in pay to go on TV," which was actually true.

At first I thought, "I'm starting to get some traction. I don't know if this is such a good idea."

My manager said, "No, you don't understand. If you can make this television show work, everything else will be great."

So we made a pilot. They had done a pilot and then they hired me to do a separate pilot.

I hired Jim Sharp, a guy that I went to college with, and Mike Noon, who was a local comedian too in Seattle and was very popular.

We figured out, "What could we do in 30 minutes?" It was a half-hour show.

The pilot was okay, not great, but it filled time. I waited a long time and went out and did stand-up until they said, "You know, we're going to give you a 13-week episode deal."

So now we're committed, and we didn't have material, so we were just inventing material as much as we could in a format that we thought was familiar to Letterman or Carson, but it's not six o'clock.

The first season, the Seattle Times said Almost Live! was really almost dead and didn't predict we'd be around very long.

Nobody liked it.

It was kind of bold to think that these local comedian people could entertain a television audience that was used to Letterman or Carson.

We hung in there and got through our 13 weeks, and we didn't think we were going to get renewed.

Well, something happened in the summertime when we were off. A show they couldn't buy or fill that slot, and then they renewed us.

In that second season, we felt like we had some traction, and we said, "We've got to get some publicity."

I went back to my publicity roots from the stereo and pet shop. I said, "Well, I know for a fact if we do something odd, weird, that might put us on the air."

We tried all kinds of things.

One of the first things we did was say, "We're going to become the most award-winning show on television. Please send us your awards. We don't care if it's for golf, baseball, football, or if it's a medal."

Every week I would say, "Hey, we're collecting now. We have 32 awards." Then, "We have 310." We had a shelf behind us showing them.

That wasn't great. It didn't catch on.

What really hit a home run for us was when we decided to start this campaign to change the state song of Washington to "Louie Louie."

Ric Hansen: I love that.

Ross Schafer: Yeah. Now, this was before the internet, but it went viral, Rick. It was viral before we even knew that word.

It was all grassroots. We gave out "Louie Louie" pins, and I went to the state Capitol and talked to lawmakers about changing the song.

I got an audience with them, and they declared a "Louie Louie Day."

So on "Louie Louie Day," I was going to march on the Capitol. We were just faking it. It was a joke, really.

But what we didn't expect was that 5,000 people showed up.

We forced the governor to come out of his office and address this. Booth Gardner at the time went to the podium and said, "Well, this is the most visitors we've ever had here at the Capitol, and I intend to get even with Ross Schafer."

It was one thing after another.

We got a dubious achievement award in Esquire magazine. It was in the papers and magazines for 280-some days.

It got so much heat. John Keister and I were going to Rotary clubs—anywhere anybody would have us—chalk up this thing.

It was so successful we had to expand the show from 30 minutes to 60 minutes to accommodate the advertisers.

So now we were on fire.

We changed our set. More people wanted to be guests on our show. It just ignited that one little idea.

And then it propelled me into the national spotlight. I ended up on Dick Clark's Bloopers and Practical Jokes, talking about it. They showed footage from the event, and I became friendly with Dick and Ed McMahon.

I had an agent now in Hollywood. Everything just kind of unraveled from there.

The next season I was doing a game show for the USA Network in Canada.

That really pushed me into a position where I could get other work.

From Seattle to National Television

Ric Hansen: And then that was kind of the launch for the opportunity to do a national talk show. It was the late-night show with Fox. You followed Joan Rivers and Arsenio Hall, and then it was Ross Schafer.

All of us in Seattle who were fans of Ross Schafer were cheerleaders. We were so excited about our homeboy making it for the big time on a national network show.

And there you had an opportunity to become a master interviewer, right?

Ross Schafer: It was so much practice so fast, Rick.

I would interview three or four people every night. Almost Live! was only on once a week, so I had to get my chops up and running right away.

It was so exciting. The people that I admired as a kid who were in movies or television or music were now sitting on a couch talking to me.

Casey Kasem was a good example. We all knew Casey Kasem from America's Top 40. Well, he sat down and started telling me about my family life.

"Hey, your dad worked for ARCO, didn't he? And your mom, she's a homemaker, but boy, she seems like a funny guy."

How does he know this stuff?

Sometimes the guests do a lot of research on the hosts.

It was like being launched into a dream job.

I always wanted to go to Hollywood, but I had a job in Seattle. My friend Jay Leno said, "Hey, you've got to come to L.A. If you're going to get ahead in this, you've got to come to L.A."

And he was wrong. I love Jay, but I had responsibilities. I had a family. I couldn't move to Los Angeles.

When I got the offer, I did move to Los Angeles, and it was going in the back door, but in a big way. It was phenomenal.

Ric Hansen: Tony Bennett, Phil Donahue, Larry King, Bob Barker, Tiny Tim, and then the interviewer of all interviewers you interviewed, which was Barbara Walters.

Ross Schafer: Barbara Walters, yes.

Ric Hansen: And that's available on YouTube if anybody wants to look that up, but that had to be intimidating.

Ross Schafer: You know, I thought it would be, but it wasn't.

Those are great names that you talk about.

But I found, like with Gregory Peck, he was very nervous. He didn't want to go on as himself. He's fine if you give him a script.

But I found over and over again these huge movie stars and television stars who were looking to me to make them comfortable.

And I was happy to oblige.

I'm curious. I have conversations with anybody. I can find out anything about anybody, it seems, because I put them at ease, I guess.

When somebody would come on who wanted to play, Phil Donahue's a good example of that. It was just glorious.

It was glorious to be able to ad-lib with these people and try to find out things that maybe they hadn't revealed yet.

It was really fun.

When the Dream Job Ended

Ric Hansen: And that wound down fairly quickly—not really because of your fault, I think, from what I've gathered. It was so far in the dumps, it was hard for you or anyone to pull it out.

Ross Schafer: We lasted under a year.

I was plucked from Seattle to do this national show, and I had no warning. I auditioned on a Friday and they hired me and said, "You've got to be on here on Monday."

I was also working afternoon drive at KJR and had Almost Live!, but they were insisting I had to start.

That was an awkward period.

But in my contracts with those two organizations, KJR and KING, they knew I was searching for a bigger job. So I had out clauses that protected me to be able to do that.

However, when I went in after Joan Rivers, there was a national search. A lot of people came in to get that job, and then they found me. I was the right age and the right look and all that.

So I got the job, but they constantly wanted to change it to a counter-programming show.

They wanted it to be like a daytime issues show, let's-get-dirty, Inside Edition-kind of show. In fact, they hired the executive producer from Inside Edition.

And I thought, "It's a late-night comedy show. Are you kidding?"

People are in bed. They don't want to go to sleep with blood and murder and crime.

So that was a fight.

Our ratings went up, they went down, they went up, they went down. They always went up when we were light, when we had fun and comedy.

I pushed hard for that.

But then they were expanding their schedule in prime time. They hired George C. Scott to do a show called Women in Prison, and they thought they had big hopes for that.

They only had so much money to go around.

At the end of my deal, they said they weren't going to advance it.

And here's what's funny about these people: the day before we were canceled, all the executives came down to our Fox offices and had presents for everybody.

I got a Tiffany clock.

They're standing up giving speeches. "You guys really did an amazing job, and thank you very much for all of your hard work. We cannot thank you enough. Hope this goes on forever."

And then the next day we're out.

What's that? What is that?

Ric Hansen: Yeah. Oh man. And that was pretty devastating at the time for you, right? All of this was building up and everything was looking beautiful and it was going just the right way.

Ross Schafer: Yeah.

Ric Hansen: And the rug was pulled out from under you.

Ross Schafer: Yes. You know, it's got to be tough.

The silver lining was because I was on national TV every night to millions of people—three or four million people every night—I got a name as a comedian.

So I could still go out and work bigger rooms, get more money. It was like I had an advertising or marketing team on my side.

I was still doing new pilots for other shows.

And then shortly after that, I went to New York for ABC and did a live show, with Spencer Christian, myself and Matt Lauer.

From Skepticism to Faith

Ric Hansen: Some of the TV shows followed. We're listening to the amazing story of Ross Schafer as he walks us through his life journey.

Because this is a Christian podcast, it's kind of faith-based, and we haven't even touched on that part yet.

The earlier part of your life, as you were explaining to me, was very agnostic. There was no real Jesus in your life.

But that all changed with an association you had with a journalist who also happened to be an author, Lee Strobel.

So tell us kind of the "aha" moment for Ross Schafer.

Ross Schafer: My skepticism is kind of in my process about everything.

I described how I scientifically break down humor. I did the same thing with talk-show hosts. I studied apes and figured that out. And with businesses, I'd bought and sold 23 different businesses, so I had to figure out, "How do I make that successful? There must be a science to it."

I was dating a woman who was Christian, and she said, "I sing. Would you come and see me sing?"

I said, "Okay. All right."

So I did, but I wasn't going for church. I was just going to hear her sing.

By that time I was living in Orange County, California. Saddleback Church was in the neighborhood.

Rick Warren was a very popular pastor. So I listened to Rick Warren. A guy came out in a Hawaiian shirt, and then he had a speaker there named Lee Strobel.

Lee had written a book called The Case for Christ.

And I thought, "My God, when is she going to sing? There are all these people talking."

So I'm waiting and I'm waiting.

Rick came on and said, "You know, this is a church for the unchurched. If you've had something going on in your life or you're tired of trying to run your own life, why don't you just sit back and listen to see what this is all about?"

He was not threatening, and he wasn't asking for money, so I paid attention.

Then Lee came out to talk about his book, and I thought, "This guy is describing Jesus as kind of his science."

He was an atheist. He then came to Christ because he couldn't disprove the resurrection.

I thought, "Oh wow, okay. This has my attention. Maybe I'll secretly read that book."

So I did.

He was signing books afterward, and he recognized me from TV. I said, "You know, I've never heard anybody talk about it the way you did. And you're a cool guy, and I'm kind of where you are in a sense. I think there's a bigger, higher power, but I don't know what it is."

He said, "Oh, here, take the book. Take the book, and then read it and give me a call."

And he gave me his number.

I read the book, and it really got my attention. Then he and I became friends, along with another guy, Mark Mittelberg, who was one of Lee's best friends and business partners.

So I decided, "I think this is a better idea than what I have. I think I'm tired of running this. I think I'm in charge of everything, but I'm not."

The other thing that convinced me was the producer that I had in New York for Days In, Squire Rushnell.

Squire has written a lot of books on God Winks—the idea that there is no such thing as a coincidence, that there is divine intervention when these things happen.

Something that had really bothered me and made me feel guilty was that I got the Almost Live! job because Al Wallace died.

I got that job at Fox because Edgar Rosenberg, Joan's husband, killed himself. She left that show to spend more time with her husband, and then they split up and he killed himself.

So those two guys died, and I got the spoils from that.

One of the next shows that I got was Match Game on the ABC Network, a game show, because Bert Convy died.

So I'm thinking, "Wow, this is not right. I should not be enjoying the spoils of people who die for me."

That's what it looked like to me. I only get jobs when people expire or leave the earth.

Squire and Lee both said, "It's not how it works. There's a divine magic happening that you didn't have anything to do with. You were prepared, but don't think that you got those things because somebody had to die for it."

And that was a big thing that eliminated the guilt for me.

I've had many things throughout the years that either I can identify as miracles or that I wasn't following God's will.

It's kind of a clumsy story to say it that way, but yeah, it's made me very strong in my faith.

I don't know how people get through life without it, frankly.

From Luck to Divine Purpose

Ric Hansen: What for me, and likely for you, now I've heard you on other interviews mention the word "luck." There was luck when you got this and luck when you got that.

And now in retrospect, you say that wasn't luck. It was too perfect, too right for it to just be luck or because I was so great or whatever.

I totally get that.

I think a lot of people are struggling with that right now, trying to make it make sense for them.

I read the book too that Lee Strobel wrote, and he's written some others. There's The Case for Heaven and The Case for Miracles. He's a great journalist and author.

So going back in your history, where were the God moments that you can now retrace after knowing that there is a God and that you maybe didn't pay attention to Him? What were some of those highlights along the way?

Ross Schafer: There were. Now that I think of it, I tried to be a good guy.

People say, "Oh, just be a good person." I tried to be a good person for a long time.

So I didn't do anything wrong. Maybe I really was following God's will for me to recognize, "Oh, I've got to quit that job and devote more to show business," or "I've got to not squander my money, save my money and be a good steward of that money."

And so, as I'm reading through the Bible, all these lessons that I learn and read about were already in my head somehow.

We didn't go to church. My parents didn't really go. My mom took us when we were little, and I hated it when it got to singing psalms because I started looking at the page: "How many more of these are there before I have to finish this song?"

My dad really didn't think about that much.

But I think, through osmosis, maybe I absorbed those lessons from my mother and from her friends and from my friends also. They got lodged in there somewhere because they were reaffirmed when I really took a serious stab at the Bible.

That was really important for me.

I can quote some Scripture that I need from time to time.

And it's funny when you do it. Why then do we forget it? We'll still get up against the wall and say, "How come I need a reminder of this?"

And that would be when I would go to church or something. Then I'd hear the stories again and go, "Why didn't I know this already?"

One of the big God moments for me was that I learned how to pray.

That was another thing that I didn't know what to do. That's a very awkward thing.

Learning to Pray

Ric Hansen: Thank you for knowing—thank you for touching on that.

Ross Schafer: That's a great one.

My friends Squire Rushnell and his wife Louise DuArt, the God Wink people, would say, "Why don't you just have a conversation? Why don't you just make it about you and Him? Make it really personal."

I didn't know that was how it was supposed to work.

So that's what works for me.

I pray every night about certain things.

The mistake that I made early is I thought we had an on-demand God. If I pray, how long will it take before that comes true?

And then I learned: yes, pray. Be prepared to wait. It may not be right now, but don't lose your faith over that kind of thing.

Sometimes—and this happens in entertainment, and it happens in a lot of jobs—I'd have these periods of really high success, but then, when you're a late-night talk-show host, there were only three of those jobs at that time, so I'm going to be without work.

What do I do now?

I went back to what I was trained in. Stand-up comedy worked.

But then there were times where, raising a family, I'd have some money problems—like none. Where I can't believe this is really happening, that I have no work on the horizon.

And I'd pray about it.

This has happened 25 times, Rick. I go to the mailbox and there's a check for something I did a long time ago, or somebody forgot to pay and now they're paying, and I had forgotten that they owed me money.

And I don't think that's lucky.

You know, when the Bible says He feeds the little birds and then feeds the fish, they don't go to work.

So I guess that's me. I'm one of those birds, one of those fish.

So I trust it. I trust that I'm being taken care of.

I do my job, and then God will take care of my job for me.

When Prayer Isn't Answered the Way We Expect

Ric Hansen: How about a challenging time? And I know you went through a challenging time, as we all do, where God—you were doing that prayer and hoping, on demand, that He would come through, and He didn't.

How do you deal with the non-answer to prayer?

Ross Schafer: Great question.

The non-answer, because that happens, I think, more often than the other side of that, is that I was always reminded: yes, I'm asking, yes, I'm praying, I've been faithful, I'm doing my part.

And then the passage that always would come back to me is, "God helps those who help themselves."

So then I take responsibility again and say, "Oh, maybe I haven't done everything I need to do. What am I missing? What's He expecting me to do?"

So that would make me dig in and then do the work again to make sure that I was doing my part.

And invariably I wasn't. Invariably.

I felt like I was coasting sometimes, thinking, "Huh, I'm exhausted. You know, your turn."

And when I would dig in and when I would do it, then I would reap what I would sow.

Rattled: Stories of Resilience

Ric Hansen: We're getting closer to the end of our time here because I don't want to keep you too long.

I know it's been a delight interfacing, first of all, with what I thought was your assistant, then found out she was your wife and also your partner and your co-author of a book called Rattled.

Rattled tells the story of when problems arise: What do you do? How do you come out of that?

That's your latest book, and both you and Allison are the authors.

Tell us a little bit about the book so our audience can know how to get it and what it's all about.

Ross Schafer: I think your audience would enjoy this because it's about struggles, and everybody—even successful people—fail, or they have a season where it's really rough and may not have all the answers.

Allison and I, during COVID, were out of work. Basically, it was illegal to have meetings, so I couldn't go out and perform, I couldn't go into clubs. She's in television, so she couldn't go on shoots.

So what were we going to do with our time?

I had this idea that I wanted to write short, punchy stories for my children, so they would know who their dad was, because they think that I'm invulnerable, and I'm certainly not.

I was describing stories and things that happened to me. Allison did the same thing.

When we were down and out, what did we do to turn that around?

It can be all kinds of things. It can be work-related, it can be childhood problems.

Allison, for example, a doctor told her that she should abort a pregnancy, and she was shell-shocked.

Why? Because they thought it was probably a Down syndrome baby or would have other complications, and they recommended that she do it.

She thought about that for a day and went back and said, "I'm not going to. I'm not doing it. I'm going to live for this baby."

This baby—it was touch and go.

She's downing more Gatorade than an NBA team. She's in bed. She's doing everything the doctor says.

"Okay, well, no guarantees here. There's something wrong, and the baby is sick, and we're going to have to take the baby now, way early, if there's any chance at all."

And again, no guarantees.

So she goes through this process, and the baby is born two pounds, and then it goes down to one pound.

She sticks with it.

She has to know how to resuscitate this baby before she can go home, and it's just a tiny, tiny baby.

This was touch and go, but the baby lived.

The baby today works in healthcare at 24 years old. She's a brilliant honor student and was a captain of the cheerleading squad.

Ross Schafer: Little Michaela was being instructed by an expert to die. Allison didn't do it.

It just gives me chills to talk about that story of how sometimes you really have to trust yourself.

There are 30 stories. I have 15, Allison has 15, and they are short stories, almost blog-like, in this book called Rattled.

The idea is these are extreme stories of resilience to take you from shaken to solid again.

It's available on Amazon or wherever books are sold.

Ross Schafer's Mission Today

Ric Hansen: What else can we do to support Ross Schafer as an audience? Prayer? Maybe are there other things that you're involved in that we can participate with?

I know you have a website. Tell us a little bit about what you're up to and how we can support you.

Ross Schafer: Well, thank you, Rick.

I would just like people to go to my YouTube channel. There are about 200 videos there that describe things that you and I have talked about.

Companies and universities like Harvard and Columbia University use them for training their students, to just get a little uplifting time that shows, "Here's a way to rescue practically any problem that you might have."

Just watch them.

YouTube doesn't give me your addresses from these. These are just YouTube videos.

Use them as a meeting opener or use them as something to show your kids.

That has now become my mission: I've lived this life and it's been all over the place, so what can I do to share that with other people?

That's what it's about.

And you can find me under Ross Schafer.

And Schafer is spelled the easiest possible way. There are no extra C's or F's or E's. It's just S-H-A-F-E-R, because my ancestors got progressively lazy. They just started chopping letters away.

Ric Hansen: And that's what I loved about it, because that was me. I was thinking, "Do I put a C in there or don't I?"

Not necessary.