MLB's Don Gordon & The Shag Carpet Conversion

After reaching the major leagues with the Toronto Blue Jays and Cleveland Indians, Don Gordon discovered that baseball had quietly become his god. Then, during a five-hour bus ride in the minor leagues, everything changed.

For millions of kids, baseball is a dream.

For Don, it actually became reality.

After growing up in a large Catholic family in Queens, New York, Don fought his way into professional baseball and eventually pitched in the Major Leagues.

But... while he was still working toward that goal, during a long overnight bus ride in the minor leagues, God began speaking to Don's heart in a way he could no longer ignore. Later that evening, alone in a small hotel room with nothing but a Gideon Bible, Don surrendered his life to Christ.

That decision changed everything.

Instead of simply becoming another retired Major League player, Don spent the next several decades serving as a baseball chaplain, discipling players across Major League Baseball, leading international mission trips, and helping athletes discover that their greatest identity isn't found in wins, statistics, or championships—but in Jesus Christ.

This episode is about far more than baseball.

It's about identity.

Purpose.

Discipleship.

And what God can do when we surrender the thing we love most.

Listen right here, right now:

Watch right here, right now:

A deeper dive:

Don has been a part of SCORE which exists to glorify God through missions in obedience to the Great Commission. Find out more.

Don also talked about his involvement in Be1Make1:

Don Gordon at a glance

Former MLB Pitcher • Christian Testimony • Baseball Chaplain

Topics

Christian faith • Baseball • Conversion • Discipleship • Identity • Missions • Professional sports

His Faith Journey

Catholic upbringing → Baseball becomes his identity → Released from baseball → Spiritual awakening → Surrenders to Jesus → Discipleship → Baseball chaplaincy → Missions

This Episode Explores

• Don's dramatic conversion story

• Why he says baseball became his “god”

• The hotel-room encounter that changed his life

• The cost of following Jesus in professional baseball

• His relationship with Randy Johnson

• Discipling professional athletes

• His transition from baseball to missions

Questions Answered

What is Don Gordon's Christian testimony?How did Don Gordon become a Christian?What happened when Don Gordon was released from baseball?What is Don Gordon's connection to Randy Johnson?How did Don Gordon go from MLB to ministry?

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Here is the complete Don Gordon conversation transcript:

Former MLB Pitcher Don Gordon: From Pro Baseball to the Mission Field

RIC: We have an amazing great news underway with a conversation. We are so lucky and blessed to have this incredible guest today. He's a former Major League Baseball player. He played with the Toronto Blue Jays and with the Cleveland Indians, who were the Indians back in the day. And it's a relief pitcher Don Gordon. Thank you for being here, Don. It is so great to have you. You know, hundreds of thousands of kids play high school baseball, right? And thousands play college baseball, hundreds get drafted each year, and a fraction of those ever see a major league ball field. And you were one of those. And that's huge. and that had to be just an amazing launch to your career in baseball, and then all that came after that. So let's start with the Jesus story right from the beginning. Was there uh a spiritual faith base in your youth, like when you were a kid? What kind of family did you grow up with?

DON GORDON: Oh, thanks. We were good Irish Catholics. It was good to see you anyway, Rick. Thanks for having me. It's a blessing to be here. Yeah, absolutely. You're you're a gifted brother in the Lord. But uh, I grew up in New York City, one of nine children. So we were good Irish Catholics, and uh I defended Catholicism to the death, even though I had no idea what it was all about.

RIC: Yeah, but we learn in catechism that it is the one and true only uh only church, right?

DON GORDON: So absolutely, yeah. And and you know, the essentials are there. Jesus is the son of God, he is God, the virgin birth, you know, he was the only way, the truth, and the life. You know, a lot of good. I'm thankful for my upbringing as far as that goes. Yep, but I didn't really know the Lord, kind of kept him at a distance. And uh it was a it was a it was a rough, rough upbringing, you know, seven boys, two girls. My father died when I was 12. Oh my gosh. And so my mother raised all of us, and she she loved the Lord, and uh so uh baseball was was my way out of New York City. I became a Mets fan, you know, uh went to a game in 1969, my first game against the Pittsburgh Pirates. Bob Moose pitched a no-hitter against the Mets. Later on, because I became a baseball player, I bumped into some of those Mets like Tom Seaver, who was my favorite, and people that uh were involved in golf tournaments, and I asked them about that no-hitter. I certainly remember that. And yeah, for 69, they won the World Series. So it was uh the Yankees weren't doing too good at the time. I grew up in Queens, uh and uh they were last place, and you know, the Mets were doing great, so became a Mets fan.

RIC: So so baseball had your heart right from the get-go as a young man. You played in high school and and in college, right? Right. Um, and that was the centerpiece of your life, as it is with most young baseball folks, right?

DON GORDON: Absolutely, you know, I I would watch the Mets on TV, run outside and throw the ball against the wall. And I I play I to I played every day, even in the winter in New York City. I didn't know I was any good, you know, until I got that male attention at tryouts and all the men came around. Yeah, it was like a drug. I hate to say that, but uh I eventually overcame all that. But uh, but no, it was uh it was a dream, it was a desire, I was determined, and uh people thought I was crazy, but I said no, I'm gonna be a major league baseball player. I did put all my eggs in one basket.

RIC: Yeah, and it seems that that's a common thread. Seems like um those that are just hyper-focused uh are the ones that are most likely to actually end up there. And and I had a young player, uh Braden Bishop, on the uh podcast here recently. Same deal, you know, young kid striving for baseball, and baseball became his big life. But anyway, so you called yourself a Christian, you came from a Catholic home. Uh you as the story goes, you called yourself a Christian. You went to chapel at uh in as you were in baseball. And at one point you'd said you thought you gave your life to Jesus like at least 20 times back in the day. Tell us about that.

DON GORDON: Yeah, so uh uh, like I said, I kept Jesus at a distance. There's a bottle back there, actually. 1983 Birmingham Barons. Okay. And that's when I went to chapel 20 times. And uh I became friends with the chaplain there. But uh, you know, every week I gave my life to Jesus just in case, you know. But but I wasn't I wasn't born again, I wasn't saved. And uh it was in college at the University of South Carolina where my coach Johnny Hunton, uh disciple Bobby Richardson, who you probably heard of. Yeah, and Coach Richardson became a friend, he would send me letters when I was in Pro Paul and all that, and Coach was a walking Bible, and he was the first one that you know really exemplified what it means to follow Jesus Christ. And I he knew you know, he memorized scripture, he was always taking mission trips, he was involved in a good church, and I just thought that's what every Christian did. But I didn't repent and trust the Lord till I got into Pro Ball, and then I got released by the Tigers, and that was really a blessing because baseball was my God, even though I told people Jesus was my God, in practice in all practical terms, baseball was my God. So when I got released, my God walked out the door, and that really got my attention. So that's what the Lord used.

RIC: Yeah, another quote from you I I picked up somewhere along the line says, I told people I love Jesus, but it simply wasn't true. Yeah. So so that's so that's sets it up, sets this up for the moment. that happened. Uh it was a bus ride that it all started, uh, from one baseball game to another. You were on the bus for five hours. What took place on board?

DON GORDON: You know, uh God was very gracious, Rick. Um, we were playing in Greenville, South Carolina against the AA Greenville Braves, and we were headed down to Columbus, Georgia to play the AA Astros. And uh on that bus ride, uh I started to think about my life. And I went to the front of the bus versus the back, because in the back was all kinds of crazy stuff going on there, and I was the life of the party and all that. But I I looked at the road going by and I started to think about my life, and God was getting my attention. And because I grew up in New York City, we grew up literally the train was right there, went by every seven minutes, shook the house, you know. And basically the Lord put it in my heart and and gave me the impression that said, Don, my train has stopped at the station of your house many times, but you've rejected me. Okay, my train is not stopping anymore. So in Romans chapter 1, verse 24, 26, and 28, it says, God gave them over to a depraved mind. So grace literally runs out in the New Testament, and God was saying, Look, either you're in or you're out. And that when I got to the hotel in Columbus, Georgia, I had my little green Bible, the Gideon's Bible. I never read it. That's the one coach gave me at South Carolina. I opened it up to the contents, which was uh weariness, you know, and I was sick and tired of being sick and tired. The scripture was Matthew 11, 28 through 30. Come to me, all who are weary and heavy laden, for my yoke is easy, my burden is light. Come learn from me. And and it was it was just uh the grace of God, the the the peace that overcame me when I repented, and like a good Catholic, I confessed all of my sins on that floor, on my knees, the shag carpet I remember, you know, the ceiling that was falling apart, the fuzzy TV, you know, in the minor leagues. Yeah, and literally, uh Rick, it was that that's when I really had my first good night's sleep in a long time. And the next morning, uh, you know, I opened the door of the hotel and the sun was shining on me, you know, really bright. And I used to hate that because I was hung over half the time. So the sun was like, oh no. But when I put my hand on the door handle, I remember one of my teammates a year before said, Don, if you would have died tonight, where would you spend eternity? And I said, Uh Ted, uh heaven, I think. He goes, You're not sure? I go, no. He goes, Well, come to my room and we'll make sure. And I said, Okay. I never went to his room. So but I knew when I touched that handle that if I was to die, that I would be in heaven worshiping Jesus with the angels. And uh, and it was a beautiful moment.

RIC: Wow, no kidding. A definitive, not everybody gets to experience that definitive moment. True. Um, you know, people come to Jesus in a lot of ways. If you're just joining us, this is Amazing Greats. And my guest is former Major League pitcher and longtime baseball chaplain Spdaker 2. His journey from the mound to ministry has impacted countless lives. I love those stories because it shows the impact that Jesus has and can have on somebody, especially somebody who's kind of already said, nope, I'm out. Uh and he said, Okay, one more chance here. Did was there an audible voice in anywhere, or was it just something, a feeling?

DON GORDON: Oh, it was it was um it was just an impression, you know. Um, and again, I knew I knew I was playing games with God, you know, I knew I I wasn't all in because I saw my teammates that were all in. I could see they had peace and joy, even though the ups and downs of the sport, I didn't have that. Uh and I was very moody. I I I you know I picked my time to be around people and not be around people. I said, I said, Jesus, would you please change that in me? Because you're a people person and I want to be a people person like you. And he did that, you know. Yeah, now I drive people crazy.

RIC: So then there was but there was phase two then. Phase two was you were fully committed, but you were quiet about it. You kept it to yourself. W what what was that period like for you? How did you sort through that?

DON GORDON: You know, um, I hadn't been discipled yet uh by my pastor in though I was considered the Christian leader of the team. Uh, you know, people trusted me then for advice and this and that, but I really had nothing to give them. And uh we were flying from we played the Texas Rangers and we were flying to play the Minnesota Twins. Andre Thornton, who had been a major leaguer for 14 years, uh, he was actually an elder in Alistair Begg's church, if you know that name, but um Andre knew that I didn't know the word of God, and he gave me a he said, Donnie, he goes, I want you to look up 2 Timothy 2.15, because I was asking him about speaking in tongues and this, that, and the other, confusing things, you know. And uh he goes, read 2 Timothy 2.15, which says, Study and show thyself approved as a workman handling accurately the word of truth. And so when I read that, I go, he knows that I don't know the scripture.

RIC: I've been busted, yeah.

DON GORDON: So, but he was very gentle, he was awesome. So I when I got back to South Carolina, um, and in the offseason, my pastor invited me to be in a one-to-one disciple-making relationship, and and I said, Man, this is an answer to prayer. And uh that's when things really changed, Rick, as far as lordship in my life. In other words, I gave him my eyes, my hands, my feet, my mind, my career, everything. You know, I didn't hold back anything, you know, and things changed in the game for me at that point as well.

RIC: During that transition time that were that you were kind of act, I guess, going public with um your faith. Uh who was who was the first two teammate to recognize and question what was going on with you?

DON GORDON: You know, Greg Moorehart, who played at South Carolina, he actually he's a scout. Uh, he signed Mike Trout and and many other great players. He he probably uh, because we used to run together in college and we had great teams, went to the College World Series, and we played against each other in double A and then in AAA. He looked at me and looked in my eyes and goes, That's not the same Donnie I know. You know, and he knew and he was not following Christ at the time. He eventually's a strong believer now, but uh, but he really, you know, because he knew me, you know, inside and out. Yeah, you know, and uh because I started with a new team after I got saved, those guys only knew me as a strong believer, you know. And then of course my wife, she's like, that's not the man I married. She liked the street tough city, oh Led Zeppelin, you know, street fighter, baseball player guy. But she didn't know what I was like on the road.

RIC: So when did she come along uh uh in in the uh conversion story?

DON GORDON: No, thanks for asking. About two years after me.

RIC: Okay.

DON GORDON: So I had she would come to visit me. She worked for IBM, I wasn't making any money in the minor leagues, so she would come visit and she'd see all these like Bible pamphlets around the apartment. It's like, man, is he in a cult or something? What you know, and and so you know, I really wanted her to have the same joy and peace and relationship with Jesus Christ that I had. But the Lord also there, Rick, showed me in so many ways, says, Don, it's my gospel, she belongs to me. Let me worry about her. You just you just live for Christ, and that was that was great. Interesting. Wow, yeah.

RIC: Yeah, every a lot of times people think they have to fix somebody or it's their job to convert them.

DON GORDON: No doubt. No doubt. I do I do a lot of biblical marriage counseling. We call those missionary marriages because the one person has to convert the other.

[UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER]: Yeah.

DON GORDON: That's their mission field, is right there in the home. Yeah, you got it. That's right.

RIC: Was there a moment anytime in your major league or in your professional baseball career where uh being close and a follower of Christ costs you something?

DON GORDON: Yes. Um, I don't want to lose my reward in heaven, but uh, but yeah, I definitely um, you know, I'll have Randy Holland share that with you. Randy was my trainer with the Blue Jays, he was a uh trainer for 18 years. Um, he's one of the guys I discipled who really went on to disciple multitudes of men and started the be one, make one. But um he shared with me in tears that uh there was there was an opportunity to be called up to the major leagues, and I was the best pitcher by far. And um the reason they didn't call me up was because I was a Bible thumper. I was a Jesus freak. And um and you know, there's three people that usually make a decision to bring you to the big leagues. It's the GM, the scouting director, and then there's always this third person that nobody ever sees or hears from that's a consultant to the uh major league GM. Okay, that particular guy, and I've prayed for him and I've witnessed to him since, but he did, he did not he wanted nothing to do with me being a believer, and um, you know, it was it was let's just say Chinese food sweet and sour, sweet because you know, because that's the cost of following Christ, right? Yeah, but sour that I didn't get more time in the big leaves.

RIC: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

DON GORDON: But the Lord knew all that, you know.

RIC: You left the ball field, but you entered the mission field uh after became really who you became. I mean, let's face it, you spent a few years in the in the in the in the baseball world, but a lot of decades in this new world that you just found. So uh, in that, let's see, some of the things you've served as the chaplain of the Arizona Diamondbacks, uh, you participated in more than a hundred international mission trips, worked in over 20 countries, became international baseball director for an entity called Score International, which we're going to talk about in a minute. You helped train believers in discipleship with uh B1 Make One, which is another thing that you're continue to be involved in. But you've discipled hundreds, um, maybe thousands, who knows how many along the way, baseball players and others, I'm sure. Uh, but do you have a discipleship success story that you can share with us?

DON GORDON: Well, as God defines success, you know, I mean, it's his great commission, right? He says in Matthew 28, 18 through 20, all authority on heaven and earth has been given to me. Therefore, go into the world, make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, teaching them all that I've commanded you to obey. So it's his gospel, it's his great commission. I'm not real smart, Rick, but if if Jesus is my coach, I was always obedient to the coach, even if I didn't like him. But I love Christ, of course, but but uh, and then it says you're right at the end of that in Matthew 28, it says, and lo, I'm with you to the end of the age. So there's in one sense, the Lord is with us because he's omniscient, he's omnipresent, right? But in the context of making disciples, he's with you. You see, and you can see, you know, Psalm 103.7 says he revealed his ways to Moses, his acts to the sons of Israel. There's more intimacy with the with the closeness with Moses versus the children of Israel, who he loved and still loves, you know, but there was more intimacy. So so when we when we follow in obedience to the Great Commission, there's a a sense of his presence that is just uh uncomparable. But as far as success stories, um I mentioned Andy Bennis, you know, Andy uh was very punctual when I discipled him with the diamondbacks, and we've become lifelong friends. Uh he's traveled with me in many places around the world. Um, but he was discipling a doctor one-on-one and two other guys one-on-one, and he's still making disciples one-on-one. So it's nice to see that that legacy again. That's God, that's the Holy Spirit, you know. Yeah.

RIC: That's that's the wind of the butterfly, as they say, you know, the um yeah, it it goes from one to the next to the next to the next, and and uh who knows where where it ends if it ever ends. Today on Amazing Greats, we're joined by former Major League pitcher Spdaker 2. Don't greatest calling became serving the game in a way that had eternal rewards.

DON GORDON: Well, and then you know, Randy Johnson saw that I was discipling Andy, so he was you know interested. So Andy goes, Go talk to him, you know, meaning me. So I'm in the locker room. He randy's you know almost seven feet tall, looking down at me with the hand. I'm looking up. He goes, Would you would you meet with me? And I said, Yeah. I said, Randy, yeah, there's a there's a commitment here though, scripture memory, and you got to do the homework. And he goes, No, I I want to do that, you know. Anyway, long story short, I decided it would be better for Andy to disciple Randy. And it's always better if you have a peer, your teammate. I was happy. To do it, he's a big fish, you know, and all that. But Andy actually took him through some navigator materials and uh growing in in Christ, and uh so he discipled them, you know.

RIC: Well, as you know, Randy Johnson is an icon in in Seattle, which is where we we live and um breathe. Um, and so stories about him are always uh exciting and encouraging, right? As you say, he's a big fish and everybody knows him and loves him. Yeah, so do you have any contact with him these days?

DON GORDON: I have his phone number, but uh you know, I'm pretty um careful with all of that, you know, unless I have some business with him or you know, um, or we have an ongoing relationship, I'm I'm not gonna bother him, you know. But but uh but no, Randy was uh terrific, one of the most committed fathers and husbands in the game, and and very honest, yeah. You know, about his language, this, that, and the other back in the day. But but yeah, no, love Randy and and Lisa, and you know, um, I wouldn't say we're close buddies or anything like that. don't want to give the wrong impression, but for that time period, we were we were close.

RIC: Okay, so generally speaking, uh, how have challenges changed for players over the years? So you've been mentoring for 30 years, uh, and you know, it's the same sport, but how have the challenges changed with followers of Jesus in the sport of baseball?

DON GORDON: You know, uh Major League Baseball recently backed off because there are certain players that didn't get involved with some of the pride things, the LGBTQ stuff, and and basically Major League Baseball backed off. But in my day, they didn't back off. You were, you know, um you were a marked man, and uh they just didn't put up with guys like me unless you're a superstar, you know, and that's just the way it was. Nowadays um it's more accept way more accepting to go to chapel. Guys, you know, are are there, they hear the gospel every Sunday, which is great. 500 chapel services uh take place every Sunday, uh, internationally and of course domestically.

RIC: Really?

DON GORDON: So it's a it's an incredible, you know, buoy coon buoy cune allowed it and it became part of Major League Baseball.

RIC: Yeah.

DON GORDON: So it's it's in the you know, in their uh guidelines or you know, articles of whatever. Yeah, and so yeah, so so that's gotten a little bit easier, I would say.

RIC: How do you help guide uh players that you're discipling uh to transition from that baseball identity to an identity in Jesus?

DON GORDON: Yeah, yeah.

RIC: How do you help along those?

DON GORDON: Well, the Lord does it, of course. He uses us and people like me and you, you know, to hopefully, you know, be that hands and feet of Jesus, as you mentioned earlier. But um, you know, uh really they they have to be disciple. They they you know, the Christianity, Jesus is the word of God, you know. In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was God, and they have to get to know Christ and his word. There's no separating that. There's not believers and then super believers. There's he has one category, you know. So unless they, you know, and it's hard, it's really hard, Rick, because baseball is a physical, you know, it's based on performance, you know, we all know that. Yeah, and you're as good as your last outing, unless you signed a multi-year deal, which very few do, even though the newspapers would say otherwise, you know. Yeah, and uh, and that commitment, it's it gets real fuzzy that line of am I do I have to work my way into God's grace? Is it my works, you know, is it how many trips I make and how many Bible studies I attend, and this, that, and the other, you know, or is it completely the grace of God, you know? And that line is really fuzzy, like I said, because you're trained to to work, you know, and be the best you can be. the Lord, you know.

RIC: Yeah. What spiritual battles do uh ballplayers, uh major league ball players or others, uh face these days that fans never uh know about or uh are totally unfamiliar with? Are there certain spiritual battles that they go through that we don't know about?

DON GORDON: Yeah, I mean, uh you know, usually it's it's peers, it's it's being judged. There was a guy on the Cleveland Indians, I won't mention his name, but he was a huge influence for the Lord. And there was another guy who was a big um prospect. He was on the cover of Sports Illustrated, and you know, um, and basically felt judged by this other player because he wanted his wife to have an abortion because the baby was going to be uh handicapped. And so my buddy and his wife said, Hey, you know, you call yourself a Christian, but that's that's not that's not something the Lord would is gonna bless, and you know, it's murder basically. So because of that, you had one guy who was an average player, the other guy was a upcoming superstar, the front office got got wind of that, and they released the player. So a lot of it is I used to get calls from guys uh like, hey, uh, you know, there's a microphone in my face after the game, and they want to know, you know, what my stance is on homosexuality or abortion or you name it. And I said, and those are the things that really trip guys up because there are guys in the game that are gifted like you, Rick, in front of a microphone and can articulate you know how they feel with you know with uh substance, you know. But the average guy is is like me. You just you play baseball because you love baseball, you don't know about politics and religion, and yeah, so that can be intimidating. So I would always tell those guys, you know, I said, Look, your job is to play second base for the Minnesota Twins or the Toronto Blue Jays or the New York Mets. That's your job, okay? Your job is not to be the spokesperson for abortion and this, that, and the other. I said, now if they put a mic in your face and say Jesus isn't God, then that's a different story. Okay, then you got to stand up and be counted. I said, but you're not the spokesperson for you know, fill in the blank, you know, topic.

RIC: What great advice that is, for sure. Our guest today is Spdaker 2, Major League Baseball player for the Blue Jays and the Indians, shares his amazing chapter and the more important chapter that followed baseball. And you and I talked about this on the phone the other day before we got together today. And uh one of the questions that um or the things that I won wanted you to share with us is uh I have felt over the last maybe 10 years that the uh idea of sharing your love of Jesus on an open microphone on national TV or for newspapers or for anyone that asks, it seems to me that sports celebrities, if you will, sports stars, are much more anxious to share that than the average Schmo, right? I mean, they're they're they're upfront and willing to say I love Jesus and all the glory is to God. What what's going on there?

DON GORDON: Okay, so look, I've been on both sides of this because a lot of my friends are in the front office, couple GMs, you know. Look, again, the team pays the players to perform and become, you know, be the best they can be so the team can win. That's their job, okay. And and uh and when um the the front office is not impressed when a 25-year-old is trying to be Billy Graham or you know John MacArthur or whoever, you know, they're they're like, okay, that's great, you know. But and these are Christian GMs. We want you to bust your butt, get out there, and get the job done, okay? But again, um, and NF the NFL guys are much more articulate about faith and in in a in a very peaceful, straightforward way that's natural than I would say baseball players. Oh, really? Why that is. But uh, but look, if a baseball player feels led to share on national TV and it's natural and it's coming from here, and he's not trying to impress his friends or the team or the pastor or this one or that one, go for it. You gotta you gotta do what's in your heart, you know, but you're gonna have a greater testimony if you play hard and many, many more opportunities to share Christ and disciple and mentor. If your character is such that you're a good teammate, you're a good employee, okay, you don't fudge and you don't compromise at all. But that's what's going to speak louder than you maybe sharing a few Bible verses, but you can't back it up with your playing ability.

RIC: With what you're doing, yeah. So that's interesting though, that um, so you think that there is more, and uh, this is news to me, but um, it's good news. So you think NFL players are much more outspoken about their faith than MLB players.

DON GORDON: Yeah, and it might be. I've done a few chapels for NFL teams, and uh it might be because they take notes, you know, and they have when they come to chapel, they're taking notes. I was like, this is great, you know, and the guys that are all in are all in. And it might be because there's more of them, you know, on a city. Yeah, and and they just seem to be um uh more when I want to be careful how I say this because the guys in the in baseball are definitely committed to following Christ, you know. But I was reading even this morning, you know, Rick, it says, you know, not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of God, you know, only those that are obedient, you know. So it just seems like there's more committed style players in baseball. Okay. Okay, that's fair.

RIC: Um, so now before we get going here, and we're you know, we try to keep these to about 35, 40 minutes or so, and we've had a great conversation, but I want to hear a little bit about Score International and uh uh be one, make one, two things which you are currently involved in and have been for years. So, what does Score International do? What's what's that all about?

DON GORDON: Well, SCORE is is a you know, serving Christ our Redeemer everywhere. That's the across thing, okay, right? And it's a full service missions organization started in 1985 by Ron Bishop, who is the uh uh athletic director at a small Christian school in Tennessee. He won four national championships. Ron was a great recruiter, he was a great visionary. A lot of people said it was this would never work. He's been dead now about 10 years. Um, but you know, Ron uh was was amazing. And um and so it went from being a basketball ministry to full service. So we we plant local churches overseas, staffed with local uh pastors and and uh uh elders and so on and so forth. And we we have a uh orphanage for girls, orphanage for boys in the Dominican Republic. We have uh foster home for boys, foster home for girls. We have a human sex trafficking ministry in the Dominican with a safe house called Lil House, and uh and you really just uh have probably a staff of 35 or 40 full-time missionaries across the board spread out over 10 10 countries, probably.

RIC: And if somebody wanted to find out more or to donate uh to that, they would just go is the uh is the website score. Oh, it's score in tl.org, right?

DON GORDON: Yes, and they'll be super encouraged. There's a bunch of testimonies on there, and yeah, we have a baseball trip every November that I I help lead. I've been on that trip probably 22 times. Um, and um, and you don't have to even like baseball to go, you just have to go with a servant's heart. We do baseball in the morning, and then they have the opportunity to visit one of our minute ministries in the afternoon, and we have great worship and messages in the evening. It's a wonderful trip.

RIC: Okay, and that's open to anyone, basically.

DON GORDON: Yeah, we've had Mariano Rivera twice, Andy Pettit twice, Andy Bennis twice, we've had Danny Schaefer five or six times, Nelson Cruz, you know, a bunch of them. And Lou Pinella has been he's been a great asset to our ministry.

RIC: Wow, excellent. And then be one, make one. Uh, tell us about that. That's it's it's a be a disciple and make a disciple.

DON GORDON: When Randy Holland, who is my trainer with the Blue Jays, he had a baseball school in Clearwater, Florida, okay, trained people like Josh Hamilton, Chris Coglin, rookie of the year, and others. Okay, when he moved to Arizona about 10 years ago now, uh, he made a promise to the Lord. He said, When I move to Arizona, I'm gonna do one thing, I'm gonna disciple men. So, so he started Be One Make One. So I'm one of his supporters, influencers, you know, all that. And um, and so we've been doing uh conferences, and all it is is again, it's the great, it's Jesus' great commission. Matthew 8, 28, 18 through 20, 2 Timothy 2, 2. Paul said to Timothy, entrust these things to faithful men who will teach others also to be faithful men. 3 John 4, I have no greater joy than to hear my children walking in the truth. That's not physical children, that's uh that's uh spiritual children. Paul calls Timothy his true child. So so just based on what the Lord has done, what Paul did with Timothy and Titus and many others, and just passing that on in obedience, really. we've had so much fun doing that. Red Father is very involved with that, you know.

RIC: Others so this has been an absolute joy. You are such an inspirational guy, been just a gracious uh guest, as well as you know, doing the work that you're doing. Man, I am so impressed, and uh thank you just the best. Thank you so much for being a bad thing.