World Series team to TEAM JESUS - Doug Flynn

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I say this a lot. But... I'll say it again. This is one of my favorite conversations. Meet legendary major league baseball player, Doug Flynn. He was team mates with Pete Rose, Johnny Bench, Ken Griffey and the rest of the Great 8 from the Cincinnati Reds world series winning 1975 and 76 team . He'll share the excitement of those years, the trauma of baseball trades, the power of a 40 year marriage and the challenges of cancer.

Doug shares the heart breaking story of his sister's disappearance, his life changing Christian journey with "Professional Athletes Outreach" and how he went from an upbringing in the Baptist church to an awesome relationship with Jesus. As he says, you can only trick people into believing you're a Christian for so long. Then it becomes real.

This episode is overflowing with joy, and laughter along with life long lessons learned.

Thanks to my good friend George Toles for the introduction....

and to Doug for promising to make even more Amazing Great connections!

Find out more about For Athletes Outreach (POA) https://pao.org

Your comments always welcome at AmazingGreatsPodcast@gmail.com

or check out our entire series at http://www.AmazingGreats.net

DOUG FLYNN AT A GLANCE

Former Major League Baseball player • Cincinnati Reds' Big Red Machine • 1980 Gold Glove winner • Christian speaker

Topics

Doug Flynn • MLB • Cincinnati Reds • Big Red Machine • Johnny Bench • Pete Rose • New York Mets • Baseball • Faith • Marriage • Olga Flynn • Pro Athletes Outreach • Cancer • Integrity • Evangelism

His Faith Journey

Baptist upbringing → Faith mainly as a child → Baseball career and personal struggles → Marriage challenges → Pro Athletes Outreach → Personal relationship with Jesus → Faith, integrity and sharing Christ

This Episode Explores

• Doug Flynn's unlikely path to Major League Baseball

• Life with Cincinnati's Big Red Machine

• Winning the 1975 and 1976 World Series

• Johnny Bench and Pete Rose

• The Pete Rose blind date that led to Doug's marriage

• The pressure of playing in New York

• His sister's unsolved disappearance

• His spiritual turning point through Pro Athletes Outreach

• Marriage, faith and Olga Flynn

• Cancer and trusting God

• Using his baseball platform to point people to Jesus

• Integrity as a lifelong goal

Questions Answered

• How did Doug Flynn make it to Major League Baseball?

• How did Doug Flynn become part of the Big Red Machine?

• What was it like playing with Johnny Bench and Pete Rose?

• How did Pete Rose introduce Doug Flynn to his wife?

• What happened when Doug Flynn was traded to the New York Mets?

• How did his sister's disappearance affect his life?

• What changed for Doug Flynn spiritually in 1984?

• What is Pro Athletes Outreach?

• How did faith transform Doug Flynn's marriage?

• How did Doug Flynn face cancer?

• Why does Doug Flynn see baseball as a platform for God?

• Why is integrity so important to Doug Flynn?

Core Story

Doug Flynn's journey from an overlooked Kentucky athlete to a Major League Baseball player was filled with unexpected opportunities. But he says the most important transformation came later, when Pro Athletes Outreach helped him understand that Christianity was not simply about church, baptism or knowing the Bible—it was about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Today, Flynn sees his baseball career, marriage, struggles and even cancer as opportunities to live with integrity and use his platform to point others toward Christ.

Doug Flynn: Baseball, Faith, Family & Finding His True Identity in Christ

Amazing Greats with Ric Hansen

Introduction

Ric Hansen: Hey, Ric Hansen here with a fun, uplifting and inspirational episode on Amazing Greats, recorded in my pickup truck from the side of the road in the pasturelands of Kentucky.

Doug Flynn is our guest.

We're going to jump in and trace his amazing Major League Baseball career, find out about his country singing on stage with Johnny Bench, and the blind date that Pete Rose set him up on. That was the beginning of his 40-year marriage to his wife, Olga.

But most importantly, Doug Flynn shares his love of Jesus and the powerful impact that's made on his life.

Let's not delay. Let's go.

We're on Amazing Greats with one of the Amazing Greats who is alive and in his car in Kentucky. Give us another little snapshot of where you're at. Can we take a look around you there?

Doug Flynn: All right. I'm going to give you just a quick snapshot. I'm not going to show you the sign that says "Stay off my land."

Just so you know, I'm out in the country amongst them. And if you hear any gunshots, don't worry—it's Kentucky. It's just normal.

From Small-Town Kentucky to the Major Leagues

Ric Hansen: My guest today is Doug Flynn. I'm going to tell you right now, this is going to be a great conversation.

I was thrilled that you just blocked out some time for us here on Amazing Greats because what a story. Your life story is the kind that books are made of.

In fact, you better write a book.

Doug Flynn: Well, there are so many blessings that I've had in my life and the things I've gotten to do.

Now, if you talk to a few New York reporters, they might tell you it wasn't such a good story.

But that's the nature of the business when you play baseball.

Ric Hansen: Let me give a quick recap.

For those who aren't up to speed with who our guest is today, you're a part of the legendary Big Red Machine. You were there when the Cincinnati Reds won back-to-back World Series in 1975 and 1976.

You played alongside Johnny Bench, Pete Rose, Ken Griffey, Tony Pérez and the rest of the Great Eight.

And that's not all.

Then you went off to the Big Apple, where you won the Gold Glove Award in 1980.

You were 11 years in the majors, but it was kind of an unlikely story how you got to the Cincinnati Reds in the first place.

So let's start there. Let's start with Doug Flynn in high school.

Doug Flynn: All five-foot-eight, 147 pounds of me tried to play three sports.

I played basketball, football and baseball. Very mediocre in all of them, seriously.

We had some really good talent around me. I wasn't good enough to make an all-city team. I wasn't good enough to get a scholarship coming out of high school.

Then an opening happened at the University of Kentucky.

They had signed a point guard to play basketball on the freshman team, but he ended up signing a contract with the Cleveland Indians.

Right before school started, I didn't know what I was going to do. I was thinking about maybe going to a junior college.

I got a chance to go to UK and play basketball on the freshman team, and it was wonderful.

I played with so many guys who became good friends, including the first African American who ever played basketball at Kentucky, a guy named Daryl Bishop. He was a marvelous player and my roommate.

When the season was over, I was on the baseball team. I played every game as a freshman and started every game.

But on the baseball team, there was a guy in front of me who was pretty good, so I wasn't getting a lot of chances to play.

I got nine at-bats as a freshman.

I was told pretty much that I wasn't Division I material.

So I went down to a junior college. I thought I was going to play some basketball.

I grew about three inches, gained a little weight and started to mature late.

When I got down there, they said I was ineligible to play basketball.

So I basically just went to school and played intramural ball.

Then some friends woke me up one day and said, "We're going to go try out for the Cincinnati Reds."

I said, "All right, why not?"

We headed over to this little park in Somerset, Kentucky, and did a tryout.

The scout came up to me and said, "You're not real serious about this, are you?"

I said, "Well, not really. Those guys kind of dared me to do this."

He said, "What if I thought you had some talent?"

I said, "I'd think that you are highly mistaken, sir. I had no scholarships, nothing. I'm just out here having fun playing ball."

He said, "I'd like to see you again."

So I got two more tryouts to go to.

The Reds signed me for $2,500 and gave me an opportunity to play.

The Big Red Machine

Ric Hansen: Ric Hansen here talking with 11-year Major League Baseball great Doug Flynn on Amazing Greats.

Doug Flynn: I was playing some softball.

It's funny. I was playing Sunday baseball doubleheaders, and then I was playing softball during the week about three nights.

I was just playing, having fun with friends, kind of on a lark.

They said, "We're going to try out."

What they all told me later was that they had seen me start to develop and said, "This guy's not too bad. We're going to at least get him in front of somebody."

Ric Hansen: So you end up in your early-to-mid-20s as part of this amazing Major League Baseball team with all the greats in the business.

How did all that feel? What was going through your mind?

Doug Flynn: Kind of like a fish out of water for a little bit.

I grew up 80 miles south of Cincinnati. Now I'm walking into a locker room, and there are guys I've been watching on TV who weren't just players—they were Hall of Fame players.

They couldn't have treated the younger kids any better.

Of course, we had Sparky Anderson there too, and all the coaches.

When I went to spring training, I knew there was no way I was going to make that ball club.

Where was I going to play?

You had a Hall of Famer at second, a potential Hall of Famer at short, and Dave Concepción, who should be a Hall of Famer. Pete Rose was at third.

There was nowhere to play.

So I figured, let's go to spring training and have a good time.

But I also knew that Joe Morgan and Davey Concepción, when they got to camp, weren't going to be in the best shape because they used spring training to work themselves into shape.

I went in really good shape.

I got a chance to play early. I got a few hits.

I ended up having 32 hits in spring training, which is still tied for the most hits ever in spring training.

I think they just kept playing me because they figured, "If he starts playing bad, we can say, 'Well, you're not quite ready.'"

But I just kept playing good.

So they kept me.

I tricked them, baby. I tricked them!

Winning Back-to-Back World Series

Ric Hansen: So here you are on a World Series team.

What was the feeling, the emotion, the camaraderie in those locker rooms back in the day?

Doug Flynn: Our team was starting to be labeled as the best team that never won it all.

In 1970, they got beat by Baltimore.

In 1972, they got beat by Oakland.

In 1973, the Mets beat them in the division playoffs.

So here we were in 1975, and there was a lot of pressure on Johnny and Pete and those guys because they had everything personally that you could ever want in a career—but they didn't have that title.

They'd been close, but they didn't have the title.

There was a lot of pressure on them.

Then, of course, we had the great World Series with Boston.

Everybody remembers it for Carlton Fisk's home run.

I remember it for the blue single that Joe Morgan hit, which we won in seven games.

After we won, there was such a relief.

The next year, man, we just rolled.

We ended up winning pretty easily again and then won seven straight in the playoffs to win the World Series again.

And I had great seats.

I had the best seats in the house.

In the 1976 World Series, that was the first year they used the designated hitter.

We used Dan Driessen as our DH. No other position players played other than the pitchers.

We won four straight.

Sparky was one of those guys: if we had a lead, keep it and bury somebody.

It was pretty cool.

You could go to the park every day and watch some of the best players who ever played the game.

You could watch the way they got ready for it, went about it, studied it and the confidence they had.

They were like rock stars.

On the road, people would flock around to see these guys.

Fortunately, they were all good people, and they're still good people.

Johnny Bench, Pete Rose and Giving Back

Ric Hansen: You keep in touch with these guys?

Pete Rose became one of your good buddies along the way.

In fact, this story will continue when he was the guy who introduced you to your wife.

Doug Flynn: Yeah, absolutely.

At my age—I'm 71 now—I do the Reds Fantasy Camp.

We have a lot of the former players come down and spend time with the campers.

Johnny Bench and I do a lot of things together.

We did a golf tournament here in Lexington, Kentucky for more than 40 years. Johnny and I did it for about 30 of them.

We also do some things with Hope for the Warriors, which is a military charity.

Johnny and I go down to Camp Lejeune every year in Jacksonville and Wallace, North Carolina, to help raise money for military families.

I'm involved with something called USA Cares here in Kentucky, and Johnny was there with me.

Whenever I've called John and said, "I think this is something we need to do," he's right there.

People don't hear all those stories about how much he gives back—or any of them.

They were all giving people.

Pete reminds you of Elvis.

People would say, "You struggling?"

"Yeah."

"Well, here's a car. Here's a new watch."

He was just—wow.

And he did introduce me to my lovely wife, and we've been married 40 years now.

I call him and stay in touch with him a little bit, not as much because he's out in Las Vegas.

Johnny's down in Florida.

Johnny and I probably talk at least once a week.

Singing with Johnny Bench

Ric Hansen: And you not only talk, but you sing together, as I understand it.

Who have you been talking to?

Doug Flynn: I've always loved it. Johnny's loved it.

He knows partial words to every country song ever written.

We love to go and sing, and we've been very fortunate to be around some guys who really can sing and back us up.

Or we get up and sing and they do most of the stuff, like the Gatlin Brothers.

That's fun.

As a matter of fact, this Friday, my parents are in assisted living, and we've put a little band together.

We're going to go over and help raise money for the assisted living home.

I like keeping busy.

I love music.

You don't have to be good—you just have to be bold.

The "Midnight Massacre" and the Move to New York

Ric Hansen: Let's back up a little bit.

There's so much great stuff to hear, but we haven't left Cincinnati yet.

Then, in your career path, there was a thing called the Midnight Massacre with the New York Mets, and that changed the trajectory of your career.

How did that go?

Doug Flynn: That was fun.

That was being traded for Tom Seaver.

You go up there and there are four of us who went—me, Pat Zachry, Danny Norman and Steve Henderson.

Man, I learned some new words the first week or so I was in New York.

I didn't realize they were directed at me.

But I understood it.

You've got a franchise that just traded one of the best pitchers in the history of the game.

Tom Seaver wasn't only a great player—he was beloved by the fans.

He had won them a World Series in '69 and taken them back in '73.

He was a quality guy too.

So we all get traded, and it was right when they were dismantling that club.

Shortly thereafter, Buddy Harrelson was gone. Jerry Grote was gone. Felix Millán stayed a little bit and played, and then he was gone.

Ed Kranepool stayed around for a long time.

It was a shock for me, but it was also a blessing.

Johnny told me the night of the trade, "You need to look at this as something good because you're going to get an opportunity to play. You're not going to play here in Cincinnati."

When I got to New York, they treated me so well.

Those guys were on their way out, and it gave me an opportunity to become an everyday player.

Life Under the New York Media Microscope

Ric Hansen: The difference between Cincinnati and New York was huge in terms of the press and everything that went on.

You were in a microscope.

Doug Flynn: You had five reporters in the Reds locker room, maybe.

Now you've got 75 coming into the locker room, all looking for a different angle and all asking you basically the same question in a different way.

You feel like you're doing a deposition.

You've given an answer, but that didn't satisfy another writer, so he'd have to put his own spin on it.

It was really hard.

When you're out there playing hard every day—or you feel like you're playing hard, even if you're not playing so well—they weren't real friendly.

You learn to grow up pretty quick.

But after playing there four and a half years, the fans treated me very fairly.

All they wanted you to do was play hard, keep your mouth shut, and if you made a mistake, own up to it.

They'd still get on you because they know the game and love the game.

But if they saw you playing hard and doing as good as you could do, they weren't too shabby.

The Disappearance of Doug Flynn's Sister

Ric Hansen: You were playing at Shea Stadium, which had to be amazing.

Doug Flynn: It was different because I'd come from playing mostly on AstroTurf, and now I was playing on natural grass.

I liked the grass, but they kept it real high.

For a guy who hits the ball on the ground a lot, it wasn't going anywhere.

It was good defensively, but offensively it wasn't.

I struggled. I really struggled my first year.

I got traded in 1977, but my sister had disappeared earlier that year.

To this day, all these years later, it's still an unsolved mystery.

Now I go to New York and everybody wants to know what's going on with my sister.

I didn't handle a lot of that very well.

I'm pretty sure I got tired of it and asked people, in a not-so-polite way, to get out of my face.

If I had to go back, I'd treat it a lot differently because I'm a lot different now.

But it was rough.

Ric Hansen: There's not much talk I could find about your sister's disappearance, but that was a key moment in your life.

Doug Flynn: It still is.

I live here, and once a week or every two weeks somebody will call and say, "I want to talk to you about it. I think I got something."

And it's still going on.

Even when I went to the racetrack up in New York, people approached me whom I didn't know.

It was kind of scary because I figured, "If they got rid of my sister, they could get rid of my mom and dad and me."

I spent a couple of years there where it wasn't really good.

I never brought it up in New York. I never used it as an excuse.

Everybody was going through something, and I figured we'd get through this as best we could.

For my poor parents, who are still 94 with no closure, it's still not a good thing.

Especially when you know there are people in your community who know something about it.

Life Beyond Baseball

Ric Hansen: Doug Flynn is our guest, sharing his life and career story and his love for Jesus on Amazing Greats.

There was another great thing that happened when you were in New York.

I want to remind you of it and hear a little more insight.

I think it was Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday nights at Cody's Bar, where you were a featured singer along with the Oak Ridge Boys.

Doug Flynn: No, that's not true.

I was a featured singer with my group that I sang with in the offseason called the Greg Austin Band.

Our band was the Coal Miners, Loretta Lynn's band.

Ric Hansen: Okay.

Doug Flynn: There was a time in 1981, when we were on strike, that I went on the road with the Oak Ridge Boys for a week.

I rode on the bus, went to their concerts and got onstage with them a couple of times.

We had Loretta Lynn's band, and her band had been voted Country Music Band of the Year for four straight years.

They had some off time, and their lead guitar player was a good friend.

He said, "I'll go with you."

So we took 18 rednecks up to New York for about three days.

It was a blast.

Texas, Montreal and the Unpredictability of Baseball

Ric Hansen: Leaving New York was kind of a shocker too, right?

Then you were off to Texas.

Tell us a little bit about it.

It was kind of a Texas-Montreal-Detroit trifecta after New York, right?

Doug Flynn: Texas was—I don't know how that happened.

Other than we got a new general manager in New York by the name of Frank Cash.

He got rid of Lee Mazzilli, me and Joe Torre.

It shocked me.

I was singing one night when my dad called me and said somebody had called the house and said, "You've been traded to Texas."

I had just signed a five-year contract in New York.

I thought, "Okay, I'm set. I'm ready to stay here. Now let's get better."

Then I got traded over there.

They were kind of doing some goofy stuff, so I was there only four months.

Then, on August 3, my parents' wedding anniversary, we were in Cleveland when they said, "You've been traded to Montreal."

When I got to Montreal, I was the sixth second baseman they'd used that year.

It was fun because I was playing with a guy I'd always wanted to play with, Chris Speier.

Chris was a good guy and great to play with.

The last two months of the season, we led the league in double plays.

Then the next year, neither one of us really had a job.

Baseball's a goofy game, Ric.

Just when you think you've got it figured out, you ain't got it figured out.

Learning to Handle What You Can't Control

Ric Hansen: How do you adjust emotionally to all that?

You're being traded and bartered and you're not really in control of your own career.

How was that to live with?

Doug Flynn: There are different ways to handle it.

If you're solid in your faith, it's a lot easier.

If you're not, you can be a nasty person.

I'm pretty sure that up until about 1984, I was probably a pretty nasty person.

I got short and bitter with the press—not so much with teammates, but with the media.

They're asking you questions that you have to answer, and you want to look them in the eye, but you also want to say some not-so-nice things to them.

I got to do a chapel at the winter meetings one year.

There were a whole bunch of media people there.

I got up and asked for their forgiveness.

I said, "I know I said some things to you all. I never cussed anybody or used bad language, but I could get in your face a little bit and make you feel pretty bad."

I said I needed their forgiveness.

I hadn't handled the situation with my sister well, and when you're not playing well, you don't handle things well either.

People say, "Don't take it home with you."

That's easy to say. It's really hard to do.

Then, after 1984, I went to a conference, and that's where I met George.

That's when I realized what I was missing in my life.

That's when it all started changing around.

From Religion to a Personal Relationship with Jesus

Ric Hansen: Let's jump back quickly on your journey.

You were raised in a Baptist church with your mom and dad, so there was a solid foundation there.

But Jesus wasn't a huge part of your life until later.

Doug Flynn: I called on Him when I needed Him.

I used to bargain with Him.

"Lord, just think what a great witness I'd be if I made an All-Star team or if I knocked in this winning run."

He's probably sitting up there going, "Yeah, right."

Ric Hansen: Looking back now, are there places in your life—bookmarks—where you can see God and Jesus were right there, that He was in control and you didn't even know it?

Doug Flynn: If you looked at how I got there to begin with, there were no scholarship offers.

I went down to a community college and didn't play any ball, where friends had more faith in me than I had in myself.

They woke me up to go to a tryout camp.

I only had two good springs my whole career. One of them was the year I made the team, and the other one was my last spring.

I was hitting .400, but collusion had gotten in, so I was asked to go.

I got to be part of two World Championship teams and win a Gold Glove, without even being the best player on my high school team.

That's all God orchestrating every bit of that.

But there was a reason for it.

I tell people we all have a platform.

I think God knew that I probably wasn't going to be smart enough to do anything else, so we better let him play ball.

That way, we can give him a platform.

For me, I was a big-league ballplayer for 11 years.

For people who haven't made it to the big leagues, that's a big deal.

For guys who struggled in the minor leagues or hoped to make it and never did, it's a big deal.

But if I compare myself to Dave Concepción, Barry Larkin or Johnny Bench, I ain't a big deal.

That's the problem I think I had, along with a lot of other people.

We were always comparing ourselves with something earthly.

I learned that I can't let somebody else's opinion define me.

It's amazing how 99 times a person can say something good about you, but that first person who says something bad—you go home and don't sleep.

You wonder, "What's wrong with me?"

Are you going to let people who don't know you, who've never talked to you, who've never seen you out in public, who've never even had a conversation with you, say something about you and let that determine how others judge you—or how you think about yourself?

I went, "No, no, no."

It used to eat me up.

Now it's kind of comical.

Those are people I really want to meet.

I want to tell them about Jesus.

I want to say, "You know what? I was just like you one time, and I'm not now."

The Turning Point: Pro Athletes Outreach

Ric Hansen: Your relationship with Jesus really happened in 1984.

What took place in 1984 that was such a turnaround year?

Doug Flynn: It actually started in 1982 when we went to a couples Bible study while I was in Texas.

Everybody says, "You were only in Texas for four months. What happened?"

Well, we met John Weber, and he was having a Bible study.

Frank Tanana, Jim Sunberg and some other guys were going.

My wife and I got married in the spring of 1982.

I think the over-under on how long we were going to stay together was about six months.

I was 30, she was 24.

Usually, after a bad game, I'd go home, have a beer, pet my dog and lay down.

The dog would say, "That's all right. It wasn't your fault. Those other guys—it was their fault."

Now you've got a wife when you go home saying, "So how come so-and-so got two hits? Were you taking extra batting practice?"

It was tough.

So we went to the couples Bible study, and it helped.

Then they encouraged us to go to Pro Athletes Outreach, or PAO.

We went in 1984.

There was a good group there—Alvin Davis, Frank Tanana, Scotty Sanderson, Brett Butler and a bunch of really cool people.

All of us have stayed dear friends since PAO.

I finally realized that growing up in the Baptist church, being baptized at an early age, going to revivals, speaking in church and quoting the Bible wasn't what it was about.

It was about an intimate, personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

That was totally missing from my life.

Somebody got up and said, "If you died today, would you go to heaven or go to hell?"

I thought, "Based on what I think on the curve, I've got a good shot to go to heaven."

But based upon what the Bible says, I had some work to do.

And that was okay.

That's when I really got convicted about what it was all about.

I tried to trick people for so long—just saying the right things, doing the right things—and they were fine with it.

But I was miserable.

Finally, I decided, "Just be who you are."

You don't speak well. Your English is terrible. Your hair is getting gray and falling out.

That's all right.

Just be who you are.

And you know what?

I got a lot more control over who I am than who I was trying to be.

Doug and Olga: A Marriage Built on Biblical Principles

Ric Hansen: What about Olga?

Was she raised in a Christian family, or did she make the turn at the same time you did?

Doug Flynn: She grew up in a Catholic church. She's Puerto Rican.

Her mom started going to a Baptist church after she got divorced.

Her mom had prayed and prayed.

It was her mom and my mom who prayed us together.

There's no way we would have gotten this worked out because she's way over my head.

The only way this happened was through prayer.

And when I say, "Do you think God did that with a great sense of humor?"

I mean, introduce me to my wife.

She's gorgeous. She was a Philadelphia Eagles cheerleader—just beautiful.

We met on a blind date that Pete had set up, and we both knew after we met that if our relationship was going to last, if our marriage was going to last at all, we had to base it on biblical principles.

Because this other stuff wasn't working.

We had some nasty knock-down, drag-out fights.

Not physical—but there was no love and no respect.

So we started going to these Bible studies.

We both realized that if it was going to work, we needed to see how Christ wanted us to be married.

What are the answers to the things we're trying to settle on our own or calling other people about?

And it just kept growing.

One of the coolest things we did a couple of years ago was go to Israel.

I'd go back in a heartbeat.

People asked, "Were you scared being in Israel?"

Scared?

God's going to take care of Israel.

I never felt so safe.

It was really cool, although there were a lot of things we didn't get to see, so we're hoping we might be able to go back.

Pro Athletes Outreach

Ric Hansen: Tell us about PAO.

There have been references to it on the Amazing Greats show with different guys, but we haven't really gone in-depth.

Pro Athletes Outreach is an organization that brings people together in a conference.

Tell us about its mission and what happens at one of these conferences.

Doug Flynn: It's a ministry of pros to pros.

You want to go someplace with a comfortable environment, regardless of whether you're a rookie, a minor-leaguer or a superstar.

It's a place where we all need the same thing: a relationship with Christ.

We go into a very comfortable environment and have unbelievable teachers.

George and Liz, Al Egg, Norm Evans and many others were involved.

We were on the board for a lot of years.

It's something you put on your calendar because, if you're a Christian, it charges your battery even more.

If you're not a Christian, this is a place where you can go and feel comfortable.

You're not going to be pressured into making decisions you may not want to make at the time.

You're going to learn a lot more.

We've seen it heal marriages.

We've seen guys grow to the point where they're now in full-time ministry.

It's just an amazing ministry of pros to pros.

Ric Hansen: The different professional athletes don't intermingle?

So you have baseball, football and so on?

Doug Flynn: Right.

You want it to be as comfortable as possible.

When Christ was messing with me, I didn't want to be around people unless I knew they were my buddies.

You start sweating and people are speaking "Christianese," and I didn't know how to do that.

So they try to keep you in a comfortable environment where you feel safe.

They do a beautiful job of that.

George was such a part of it.

Here you've got a very successful businessman who comes in and is so loving.

He didn't push anything on you.

He just talked to you.

That's why I still love him.

He changed my life.

Prayer, Faith and Unanswered Questions

Ric Hansen: What about those times of doubt, challenges or unanswered prayers?

Have you had those along the way, and how did you handle them?

Doug Flynn: I never made an All-Star team and I never got an MVP.

I prayed for those too.

I never had five-for-five.

My prayer life is so different now because the stuff I prayed for before was so selfish.

I still pray selfish prayers because I know God already knows the desires of my heart.

But I've certainly changed the way I go about praying.

I try to pray a little bit all the time—riding in my car, listening to music.

I listen to as much gospel music as I can.

I'm not a contemporary Christian guy.

I'm an old Southern Gospel guy.

I love the four-part harmonies.

My wife and I are totally different. She loves the other kind.

I told her, "You can't be saved until you like four-part harmony."

It's as easy as that!

But my prayer life is so different now.

Before I really got to know Christ, I don't know that I was really praying to a person.

I was praying to something up there, and I wasn't sure what it was.

Then the more I grew to know Christ as an individual—He became man and went through all of that—the more real it became.

I was watching one of the movies the other night, and when those whips start cracking and you feel that skin, you just go, "He did that knowing that I was going to be such a big screw-up anyway."

That's one of the most humbling things I could ever imagine.

Somebody would love you that much to die for you, knowing you were going to be rotten, knowing you were even going to turn away from Him sometimes.

You just go, "Wow."

Our preacher said the other day, "I've witnessed to so many gnarly, ugly, dirty, stinking people."

He said he had never had one come back and say, "I really wish you wouldn't have shared that with me."

But he had a whole lot of them come back and say, "Thank you for helping me get on the right track."

A Mission to Point People to Jesus

Ric Hansen: I love that mission.

Your life mission is to not let anybody you know go to hell.

Doug Flynn: Yeah.

Some people see me coming and think, "Oh boy."

That's okay.

My wife says that when we die and have to face God, there will be two lines.

What if somebody over in that other line looks over at us and says, "How long have you known me?"

And you couldn't share this with me?

This was that big a deal to you, but you couldn't tell me about it?

So we're both kind of on a mission right now.

It's one we should have been on our whole life.

Finding a Church Home

Ric Hansen: Do you still go to the Baptist church?

Doug Flynn: No.

We go to Church of the Savior, which is kind of a nondenominational church.

Steve Pearson is the pastor. He's wonderful. He's a great Bible teacher.

At the Baptist church, we had two pastors retire.

When they started trying to fill in, we just felt like we weren't getting fed there.

So we spent a year going around to friends' churches, listening to them preach and listening to song leaders.

We spoke at a few churches.

Then we heard Steve and went, "This is where we belong."

A Love of Southern Gospel Music

Ric Hansen: What kind of music do they play?

Is it gospel?

Doug Flynn: No, they play that old ugly contemporary stuff.

I'm going to have to start my own quartet if I'm going to get my kind of music there.

It may run a few people off, but hey, let's go.

There are a bunch of old guys in there like me, so that might be okay.

Ric Hansen: It's funny.

The church I ended up going to after my own conversion and being rebaptized was full of contemporary music.

I'm an old Top 40 rock-and-roll DJ, so when I went into church and they were singing these melodic, fun, contemporary songs, I thought, "This is the place for me."

Different strokes for different folks.

Doug Flynn: I want fun.

I don't want dirges.

Don't sit here and bury me through a song I'm supposed to be worshiping to.

I want something that makes me snap my fingers a little bit.

My wife will sit there laughing at me.

They started singing this song the other day, and I went, "Who died?"

I know somebody died.

She said, "Hush, that's not nice."

I said, "Somebody died if you're singing this kind of song."

Surviving Cancer Through Faith

Ric Hansen: God had to be a part of your getting through cancer.

Doug Flynn: Yeah. Every bit of it.

It's a weird feeling when somebody looks at you and says, "You have cancer."

You go, "Oh, you're serious?"

The doctor said he could operate in a month or on Monday.

I said, "Monday."

He said, "All right, let's do it."

It was supposed to take about an hour and a half to remove my thyroid, but there was so much swelling that it took about four hours.

When I came out, they had nicked my vocal cords, so I couldn't speak for about a month.

Two or three days after surgery, I went and watched the high school basketball state tournament.

I felt good.

I just felt like, "All right, Lord, it's totally in Your hands. Every bit of it. Totally in Your hands. Just show me what You want."

"If You don't want me to talk anymore, fine. If You want the cancer to go away, fine."

Sometimes you feel like you cheat when you're sitting there knowing you have the Creator of the universe you can call on for whatever you need.

There are times when I speak where I don't remember everything I said because I said, "Lord, I don't have the words."

And He says over and over in the Bible to different people, "Don't worry. You just get there and I'll put the words in your mouth."

I've been like Moses a few times going, "I don't think I'm your man. My voice isn't too good. I stutter a little bit."

Ric Hansen: And your voice came back to where you're singing again.

Doug Flynn: Yeah.

It's not all the way back, but it's good enough.

I used to sing really high parts.

Now I don't sing those high parts. I sing a lot of lead and baritone.

Looking Forward and Sharing the Platform

Ric Hansen: You mentioned to me in an email that you're friends with the Gatlin Brothers and Jeff Foxworthy, and you promised you were going to lie.

I'm going to get you on video here saying you'll line me up with those guys so we can put them on the Amazing Greats podcast.

Doug Flynn: We'll break it up, Ric. We'll break it up.

I promise you I'll call them and talk.

I'm real good friends with Steve and Rudy Gatlin.

They're wonderful guys and excellent spokespeople.

They're both solid.

And Jeff would probably do it in a heartbeat.

I'll certainly tell them that I did it and that I would suggest that they do it.

Ric Hansen: And I was a kind host. I didn't put anything on you.

Doug Flynn: Not yet. It's early.

We're almost through, but you could mess it up here at the end.

A Life of Integrity

Ric Hansen: I think we're going to call it quits.

We've had a great story, and your sense of humor has been fantastic.

I love your testimony.

Thank you so much for being here, and thank you for stopping on the side of the road to give us some time with you and your car today.

Doug Flynn: Thank you, Ric.

You know what you're doing.

There are a lot of us out here.

A writer asked me one day, "How come we don't have any more heroes?"

I said, "Oh, you're wrong. We have lots of heroes. You all have just chosen not to cover them."

I've never told anybody I thought I was the best ballplayer or anything.

God put me in that position for the things that have happened to me so much after the game.

I'm very blessed because of that.

I don't take any of it for granted.

I just hope from here on I'm enjoying life.

Probably at age 71, I'm enjoying life as much as I ever have.

I don't do Twitter. I don't do Facebook. I got off all that stuff two years ago, and I'm having a great time.

It's like a big monkey just jumped off my back.

I'm not arguing with anybody.

I'm serious.

It's because of the peace that God gives me that I'm able to enjoy so much now.

Ric Hansen: In one interview, you said something that was prophetic for me.

You said you wanted to be remembered as—do you recall what you said?

Doug Flynn: I don't think it was much.

I think I just want people to say, "Hey, you're an okay guy."

Ric Hansen: Here's what you said.

You wanted to be known as a person of integrity, 24/7.

Doug Flynn: Oh, I do that all the time anyway.

That's just a given in my life.

That's become a given.

And I know I haven't gotten there.

There are days when I think I'm pretty close, and then I'll screw it up.

A guy will pull out in front of me, and I'll say, "You ruined my day, man. I had a perfect day going."

But I do.

My dad told me that years ago.

He said, "People could take a lot of things from you, but your name and your integrity—they can't take that."

He said, "You always be a person of integrity."

And you know what?

You don't have any arguments with that.

Closing

Ric Hansen: You don't.

You don't see bad articles in the paper because when people want to try to say something bad about you, it's in the Bible:

Live your life so that when others see it, they're going to say, "There's no way."

Doug Flynn: It only took me about 70 years to get to that point.

But yeah, I'm still working on it, baby.

Ric Hansen: Thank you, Doug.

I'm going to let you get on the road.

I really appreciate your time.

God bless you for all the things that you have done and are going to do.

I hope to keep in touch.

Doug Flynn: Yes, let's stay in touch.

And I promise you I'll make those contacts.

I've got a few others that you would really enjoy talking to as well.

Ric Hansen: Those are surprises.

I'm going to be checking my email.

Doug Flynn: That's all right.

Take care.

Ric Hansen: One of the coolest guys I've met—Doug Flynn.

Thanks for joining us for this powerful life story and testimony.

Like, share and/or subscribe to help grow the podcast, and join us every other Wednesday for another look at how God is working in real time every single day.

Thanks to the awesome production skills of Klem Daniels. He puts his polish and finishing touches on each and every one of our shows.

And thanks to George Tolls, who is referenced a couple of times here in our interview today. He connected me with Doug Flynn.

And, of course, a big thanks to you for listening.

Until next time, God bless.